Episode 60 – Atheist review of the year with several guests

The latest Episode of Still Unbelievable! is up.

Still Unbelievable!


https://anchor.fm/s/7e631a4/podcast/rss

Summary

This episode features David Johnson from Skeptics and Seekers, Clint Heacock from The MindShift podcast and David Hayward the Naked Pastor. We discuss events from the past year, like lockdown and race riots as well as some lighter hearted moments.

The Naked Pastor: https://nakedpastor.com/

The Lasting Supper: https://thelastingsupper.com/

Skeptics and Seekers: https://skepticsandseekers.squarespace.com/

The Mindshift Podcast: https://mindshiftpodcast.co.uk/

David on the MindShift podcast: https://mindshiftpodcast.co.uk/2021/07/16/papering-over-the-ugly-truth-the-history-of-the-church-and-racism-with-david-johnson/

CORT 2021

Conference on Religious Trauma: https://pheedloop.com/CORT/site/home/

Jesus and The Disinherited

To contact us, email: reasonpress@gmail.com

Our Theme Music was written for us by Holly, to support her and to purchase her music use the links below:

https://hollykirstensongs.com/

https://hollykirsten.bandcamp.com/ — Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/message

Transcription

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Episode 57 – Jonathan McLatchie in Conversation with Matthew

Still Unbelievable!


https://anchor.fm/s/7e631a4/podcast/rss

Summary

This episode is the audio of a livestream conversation that Matthew had on Jonathan McLatchie’s YouTube channel.

They talk about Matthew’s deconstruction and what it would take for Matthew to believe again.

The original live stream conversation between Jonathan and Matthew is:

The Genetics article that Jonathan mentions is:

Waiting for Two Mutations: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581952/

a response by Michael J. Behe to the article was published in 2009

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2644969/

To contact us, email: reasonpress@gmail.com

Our Theme Music was written for us by Holly, to support her and to purchase her music use the links below:

https://hollykirstensongs.com/

https://hollykirsten.bandcamp.com/ — Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/message

Transcription

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Michelle: A Loving Unequally Yoked Relationship

Graceful Atheist

Sneha ss, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons
Click to play episode on anchor.fm

Listen on Apple Podcasts

My guest this week is my wife, Michelle. Though I have deconverted from Christianity, Michelle is very much a dedicated Christian. We still love each other and we are making it work in an “unequally yoked” relationship. We have an honest conversation about how we got to now and how we go forward in the future.

When you told me ….
It was the first time when I felt like “we are real” and I am seeing what is really going on inside of you.
And that felt, in spite of all the bad stuff that was there, that at least felt good.

Michelle does work that is social work adjacent. She is a better practicing humanist than I am. I admire her for who she is as a person. I admire…

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Michelle: A Loving Unequally Yoked Relationship

Graceful Atheist

Sneha ss, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons
Click to play episode on anchor.fm


Listen on Apple Podcasts

My guest this week is my wife, Michelle. Though I have deconverted from Christianity, Michelle is very much a dedicated Christian. We still love each other and we are making it work in an “unequally yoked” relationship. We have an honest conversation about how we got to now and how we go forward in the future.

When you told me ….
It was the first time when I felt like “we are real” and I am seeing what is really going on inside of you.
And that felt, in spite of all the bad stuff that was there, that at least felt good.

Michelle does work that is social work adjacent. She is a better practicing humanist than I am. I admire her for who she is as a person. I admire…

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Conversations with An Apologist

This blog has been quite for a while, but my podcasting continues, I am still active in atheist / Christian dialogue, but it tends to be in places other than this blog.

Recently I had the opportunity to host two conversations with the apologist Jonathan McLatchie. His media locations are available here:

You can listen to those conversations here:

  1. https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/episodes/Episode-25—Jonathan-McLatchie-on-why-the-Resurrection-is-true-edftj1
  1. https://anchor.fm/still-unbelievable/episodes/Episode-28—Jonathan-and-Brian-in-conversation-eedl4q

The second conversation was a hosted conversation, where I was not actively engaging with Jonathan, instead I invited a friend of the podcast Brian Blais to have a follow up conversation with Jonathan. More about Brian can be found here:

The second of the podcast conversations has prompted a blog post which I feel the need to respond to. I replied over on the blog itself, but sadly my comment has not (yet) made it through moderation. I have no idea why, it could easily be an oversight.

The blog post can be found here: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2020/05/mclatchie-vs-blais-on-miracles.html

I shall now respond to the essential points raised in that post:

  1. This wasn’t a debate, it was a conversation. Conversations meander, which is good and I encourage conversations on my podcast for that very reason. Conversations enable free exchange of ideas and foster understanding in a way that debates do not. Debates create a tribalist “my man won” culture. I dislike the debate format for this very reason. I do not host debates on my podcast.
  2. Yes, I was hands off during the discussion (it was not a debate!) , I made my intention clear from my opening remarks. During editing it did become obvious that Brian spoke more than Jonathan, this wasn’t obvious during recording and with hindsight it is something I could have managed better. Though I am not sure it hurt the conversation flow.
  3. I reject the gish gallop suggestion. I host conversations because conversations meander and go places. Conversations are good for this very reason.
  4. If the points Brian brought up for not novel, and there are reasonable responses, how come the points are still barriers to belief? I am happy to host any Christian who wishes to press any point.
  5. I support Brian’s expectation. If testimonial isn’t good enough for you to believe someone was abducted by aliens, then it’s not good enough for me to believe a man rose from the dead 2000 years ago.
  6. Events that don’t meet our understanding of physics require additional support in order to be taken seriously. Complaints that this excludes an person’s precious belief state will not get any sympathy from me. Bring the evidence or go home.

Just stop engaging…

Just stop engaging…

When Belief Dies

I haven’t told many people about my gradual deconversion from Christianity to something (I am still uncertain if I can really give myself the title Atheist yet…). But I have been thinking a lot about why I am so reluctant to talk to people about my loss of faith in God.

I think it comes down to the following emotional reasons:

I am worried that they will reject me. I am worried that I will be thought less of. I am fairly sure that I would have to change my job (Christian charity worker here) and I am certain that I would lose friends as they gradually pulled back from me.

I think it also comes down to these philosophical reasons:

Morality is still too big a subject for me to ‘put to rest’ on pure chance and evolution. The historical evidence for the life, death & resurrection of Jesus…

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David Johnson: Skeptics and Seekers

Graceful Atheist

David Johnson
Click to play episode on anchor.fm

My guest this week is David Johnson, the co-host and creator of the Skeptics and Seekers podcast and blog. David is a former Church of Christ member and a pastor’s kid. He was baptized at 7, leading the church in song at 7, preaching at 12, the youth leader at 15 and assistant minister at 21.

Was I the real thing? Pathologically so.

His deconversion process began as he examined the Church of Christ’s doctrine against musical accompaniment in worship. He says “the little things, were the big things.” And if the little things were wrong, what else might be wrong?

You know, I think we might be wrong about that [instrumental accompaniment].
And that was hard for me.
It was hard in a way that I am not going to be able to express.
For me, if we were wrong about musical instruments…

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Those Who Went Before

Those Who Went Before

When Belief Dies

Your questions have probably been asked before.

It has taken me a while to realise that with everything I am going through, someone else will have been on a similar journey. Where we end up could, of course, be different but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t take the time to stop and understand who else has been asking the very questions that I am engaging with.

Imagine that you have been dropped in a new part of the world, the landscapes are unfamiliar and you are essential lost. You can push forwards, try to understand where you are by moving forwards and reflecting back when you can later on, or you can ask those who have been in this world before you, to reflect on their experiences that went ahead of you.

Take my journey of doubt as an example. Everything I am going through feels raw and new, nothing…

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